Family. It's time for a true look at your world. Let's get hooked up for Pack therapy. Here's your host, Tim Donnelly and Graham Hill. It's finally here. Ladies and gentlemen, this is our final three, final four pack therapy podcast. We've been cranking out content all week, all year. It's been building towards this. We didn't even know it was building towards this uh for, for most of the season, but we're in the final four and, and uh we have a Pack Therapy podcast for you. I'm Tim Donnelly. Graham Hill alongside me. Please subscribe everywhere you listen to your podcast. Even if you're listening to this on one podcast software, go find another app, subscribe there. We'd appreciate it. Uh Tell your friends and uh and get ready for a heck of a weekend of college basketball, send it to somebody that might be traveling to Phoenix. I know some people that are getting late night flights tonight at like 1030 11 just to kind of help with the cause. But da da, da, da, da, da, da, da da. It's the final, I let that go parentheses. Four Countdown Pet Therapy Edition podcast. Who would have thought him who not me, not me. And, and my favorite part, Ed, uh, look at us. Um, we had Gary Hahn on an earlier episode, the, The Voice of NC State and Great episode, by the way, as somebody who, who's been around the program now for 30 some odd years, uh, Gary said, if anybody told you before the AC C tournament run, uh, that they knew this was gonna happen, they're lying unless they are in that locker room because you need to have belief. Uh, so I, I'll echo Gary and say, heck no, I didn't know this was gonna happen. Graham didn't know this was gonna happen. You didn't know this was gonna happen, but that's the beauty of life is that it did happen and we're here and we get to talk about it and, and, you know, to give you the, the table setting here states a, a 9.5 point underdog, right? If, if you pick NC State to win on the money line plus 340 which means you bet $100 you'd win $340. Nobody is believing in them but guess what? Nobody believed in him last week. Nobody believed in him the week before or the week before or the week before. So they're comfortable in it. Uh We'll talk about that in a bit, but I, I do think we have to start this podcast where this, this matchup starts, which is, uh, on the block in the paint as close to the basket as you can get. Call it a throwback, call it 19 nineties level, uh, uh, basketball. But Zach Edie and DJ burns, if they're not the ones that decide this matchup, it's how their teammates play off of them that will decide this matchup or their absence might decide this matchup and, and, uh, rightfully so, like, like, you know, I, I'm big on and, and this was part of the problem I had with some other basketball teams that ruined my bracket. Uh, is, is you dance with who brought you? Right? You, you, if you made it to the final four with Zach Edie scoring 30 I would expect Perdue to lean on Zach Edie or 40. I should say, uh, you lean on Zach Edie against state. If, if state made it to the final four with DJ Burns being their automatic bucket, I think they lean on DJ. Burns being their automatic bucket. They're not going to try to re invent the wheel now that they're in the biggest games of their season. Give credit where credit's due. All right. P. Zack Edie has looked determined to end his collegiate career with a national championship rightfully. So the senior senior has averaged 30 points and 16.3 rebounds during March Madness to join Elvin Hayes, Jerry West and Wilt Chamberlain Chamberlain as the only players in the last 70 years. To average at least 30 points and 15 board, 15 boards through four games for our younger listeners. Those were a long time ago, Jerry West, the logo will, I mean, we could go through their, their bona fides, but those were very, very good players from a long time ago. I know I'm reading those stats like I was around to see those performances happen. I'm just a big, I'm just a big history book guy. I'm a big stats guy. So that's why I read that out there. I'm just trying to set up just how phenomenal of a career Zach had and how phenomenal the season he's been having and playing the incident, the tournament. But I think you're absolutely right. If you're able to shut down Zach Edie, if NC State's defense is able to double team him, get in his head, stop him. As Gary Hunt said, from getting the ball inside the lane and backing players down, it's gonna come down and produce three point shooting similar to NC State with DJ Burns, which, which, which is not the best thing to lean on because Perdue can shoot the lights out. They don't shoot at as many threes as like in Alabama does, but they can, their three point shooters can shoot the lights out and they're like second in the country, right in three point shooting percentage in the volume isn't there, but they're up there in percentage. But, but I think we even need to take a step back and this goes for both burns and Edie, uh, like bottling them up is not gonna happen. They are both very much a, uh, you know, you can't, you can't control or you can't stop them. You can only hope to contain them. Um, Zach is shooting 62% from the, the, the field this year. If you just make him a 50% shooter, that dramatically increases your chances of winning a basketball game. And, and if you can do that with well timed double teams rather than double teams every time he catches it, I it's massive and, and this is the part that no one wants to hear. So, uh, if you have the little 32nd boo boo boo boo do that four times, uh, just because nobody wants to hear this and if you're your, your ears are peaked, uh, here you go, a lot of it is gonna come down to how the referees call this game. Uh, Purdue is, I don't know if it's a, if it's a hypnotism thing, they are unreal at getting whistles on the other team and not having them called against their own team, which, which is, you know, worth its weight in gold. And if I'm looking at Edie and Byrne and, and we've started this podcast talking about them for a reason, they are the cornerstones of their teams. If either one of them has to spend a significant amount of time on the bench not chosen by their coach. We know that Keats likes to get burns his, his breaks when they can. Uh, but, but if either one of them have to say, say, pick up two quick ones in the first and, and lose their rhythm while they're on the bench waiting to come back in. Or if either one of them is, you know, forced back into the game with eight minutes left in a close game in the second half with four fouls because their team needs them and they can't play as aggressive as they'd like because they're worried about the foul situation. That can be the difference. So the part that no one likes to hear is this final four matchup, which is the culmination of so many great careers. Six years of college basketball for DJ Burns, four years of college basketball for Zach Edy, five years of college basketball for DJ Horn. A career's worth of basketball for the coaches. It could come down to how many whistles get blown because those two guys are so important. They're so unique. I'll talk about this with like, uh, Debo Samuel or, or uh, Casey Concepcion for NC State football. Um, there's no backup. Right. It's not like, oh DJ Burns is in foul trouble. Let's trot out our other 69, 300 pounder to play that role. It's, it's, if DJ Burns is in foul trouble, everything changes and and same thing for Perdue if Zach Edie, if, if DJ burns hits the, the pump pump fake and, and Edie leans in and he does the shoulder thing and gets three fouls early on Zach Edie Perdue doesn't go. All right, let's bring in our other all world 7 ft 3, uh, 310 pounder like that. They don't exist. So, so the entire game can change on, you know, 33, three blows of the whistle. Right? And like that, that's, that's a on site made uh, sound effect. Thank you. If, if those happen, it could completely change everything. If the irresistible force meets the unmovable object or what did we say yesterday on the drive as the unmovable object versus the, the unmovable same? Right. It's, it's not an immovable object against an unstoppable force. It's an unstoppable force against an unstoppable force or, or an immovable object against an immovable object. They are both 300 something pounds. Uh Every matchup they've had this year, they've had the strength advantage, meaning Ed against whoever they were playing against, burns against whoever he's playing against. I wanna see what happens when it might, maybe one of them is dramatically stronger than the other, maybe. Right. I don't, I don't, I haven't seen their bench press numbers. Maybe one of them is dramatically stronger than the other, but there's also a chance where, you know, it's, it's that moment, uh, like you see it in comic books or something when, uh, it's, you know, you learn one of them is worthy of stopping the other where, where they, they hit each other and it's a stalemate versus Superman. And then it's like, uh, oh, what do I, what do I do here? What, what's my plan? And it, it might have to be instinct. Right. Because, you know, if something's never happened before, it's really hard to have a plan for it, I'd hate it. And I'm sure a lot of NC State fans would hate it too. During this whole NCAA tournament for state, the officials have been light on the whistles, which is, which is nice. I, unless I, yeah, let him play. That's a thing we want. That's what March madness is all about. I'd hate if this game tomorrow night comes down to the officials. And I mean, you know, to be a little bit of a devil's advocate, how do you determine what's a foul and what's not a foul when you have DJ Burns back in DJ. Burns who gets the ball at the top of the post and then backs players down in the lane. And then same thing with Zach Edie gets the ball at the top of the post, backs players down in the lane. DJ Burns as you mentioned as back to uh back to chess kind of movement. Zach Edie, I see more of just like a flinging swing of the arms almost like a inflatable arm arm moving two man. I don't know if you haven't said that right. But yeah, how, how are the officials going to determine that? That's what, that's gonna be a big thing to look out for in this matchup. II, I look at it and I just brought up the, the statistics, uh, these are two tournament games earlier this year, uh earlier this tournament. So within the last, you know, three weeks, uh, Purdue against Utah State. Purdue was whistled for 10 fouls. So 10 fouls against Purdue players, they committed them, uh, Utah State 20. It's unbelievably rare in college basketball to have a game where there is a double digit discrepancy in, in, uh, foul calls and then most recently their elite eight game against Tennessee, which came down to the wire. Dalton connect for Tennessee had a great game. Uh, Perdue was called for 12 fouls as a team. Tennessee was called for 25. So that is double plus, right? That is a 13, uh, foul difference and Perdue only only fouled 12 times. You could, you go back and watch the game and say, you know, well, actually, Purdue is just an unreal, uh, you know, fundamentally sound. They always go straight up and down and they're never at a position defense. Maybe I find it very hard to believe that there were 13 more fouls on one team than the other when they're both playing the same, uh, you know, they're on the same court. It's not like one's playing a different sport. So, so that states that's their challenge, right? Don't let that happen. Don't let that get away every time Zach Edie draws one of your bigs into a foul. Maybe DJ Burns has to do the same to one of theirs. I have a hypothetical question for you. Tim. I love hypothetical. Call me crazy. All right. State fans. 10 horses size ducks. Yeah. Call me crazy as well. If you're Kevin Keats, do you kind of take a page out of Jim Valvano S notebook as far as, but putting in some guys that, let's say a Brion pass and Ernest Ross, Dennis Parker Junior who just got cleared. You're looking at me like where is this going? Dennis Parker J. Dennis Parker Junior who just got cleared. Do you put those guys in and are willing to sacrifice maybe one to two fouls? Because you know, he's gonna draw some contact. It's just a matter of who do you want to be getting the contact called on if you're Kevin Keats. The, the problem I have with that is, is Perdue still drawing the fouls. I sent a good free throw to the line. Yeah, I do not want them in the bonus. I do want E DC and the ball go through the bucket. I do not want those three point shooters getting into a rhythm at the three point line. I, I would much rather and right, this is like, you know, I would much rather, uh, my, my, my, uh, my wife is one of the things I, I tease her for is she loves saying I love a good, like, she's like, I love a good spaghetti. I love a good, uh, old fashioned. I love a good rom com and I'm going like, well, you don't have to say good, like we're aware that you only like the good ones. Uh So this is me saying like I would much rather have a good foul discrepancy, meaning I'd rather have my starters on the floor and them not fouling than have to put my backups in for them to foul, which is common sense, right? That's like saying, I, you know, I love a good hot chocolate. It's like, oh, I thought you were gonna say I love a bad hot chocolate. I, I want my starters in the game and not fouling which I mean, let's be real. You're a 9.5 point underdog. Uh ESPN S matchup predictor. I have it here in front of me gives uh NC state a 10.4 chance to win 89.6% chance they have Purdue winning. You're gonna need some things to go your way. One of them might be the main contributors, the Mo Diarra, the Ben Middlebrooks, the, the DJ burns have to be able to give you good minutes without fouling. So uh you know, there's your challenge. Um You're right. I'm an idiot. Sorry, sorry about that. Fans. Don't, don't I get what you're saying? Because if the like and maybe there is a situation where if the refs are being ticky tacky, if they are calling touch fouls, you darn sure don't want them to be on Diarra and Bur Burns. You can't. Right. Because if those guys are out your chance is that 10.4% chance to win might be too generous. So, so maybe there is a situation where you're looking at Middlebrooks and saying, hey buddy, your, your nickname today is five fouls, right? You, you have five fouls to give or, or you know, I, I don't think you go too deep in your bench because it's a big moment. But uh but yeah, II I understand the question. I just, I just think, you know, you gotta, you gotta kind of ask for the performance. The other thing that, that I think is important, like we can go Xs and Os down the way, right? This guy against DJ Horn, this guy against Michael o'connell, I think their perimeter defense is gonna have to be unbelievably well communicated with the shooters of Purdue. If you double team, the rotations have to be unreal, the skip passes have to be covered. We, we could do that, but there's this other side to this game which, you know, I'm kind of calling a vibe check um, there's a ton of pressure for, for being in, uh, a final four. I think uconn has an advantage because they've been there before. They've literally, they're the defending champ. I think NC State has an advantage because like, you know, it's, it's the, the bane thing from the dark knight rises where it's like, oh, all of this pressure, you're feeling it. I was born into it. Right. They've been here in winter, go home for a long time and it might not have as many eyeballs on you, but the pressure has been there for a long time. I would, I think I would going up against uh Purdue. I think I would try to rattle him early. Full court press right? Trap. Uh I, I um go for steals, right? Try to dunk on somebody if, and, and get the crowd involved. Yeah, I, I think the, the more frenetic, the pace, the more kind of skittish everybody feels. I think the better NC State looks because keep in mind, you know, Purdue was the team that lost to a 16 seed last year. II, I don't know, they were a one seed. They lost to a 16 seed, uh fairly Dickinson, right? II, I think, you know, you want to bring up those flashbacks and, and, and, and if you're NC state, it's like, oh, what are you gonna do? Put us down 12 in a uh in a, in a win or go home game. Louisville did that to us a month ago. Right. We, we've been, we've been here before. Um, what you're gonna take us to overtime, uh, Oakland and Jack Goy did that to us two weeks ago. We're, we're good. Um, so, so in any way they can to kind of up the pace, like every time out I would be waiting for Purdue on the floor. Right. The, the, if I'm Kevin Keats, I'm saying what I need to say, I'm understanding, I have a veteran team and with 15 seconds left in the time out, I'm telling the five to go out there and be waiting for Purdue. I want them to feel like like this is what NC State does and this is what Perdue hopes to do, which is just a slight difference, but it's something that you can use as a mental advantage. You need advantage. You can get, if it bleeds, you can kill it. Right. Exactly. And I think also for NC State, don't try to go quickly. Download a DJ burns, as you mentioned, try to throw them off a little bit, pass the ball, spread out around, around the perimeter. Look for a three point shot if it's there, take it, go ahead and try to establish a, a quick little run baseball three point shoot. I'm trying to find it real quick. People forget that NC State played Purdue, I think maybe two seasons ago in like a neutral site game and it really came down to, I think Zach Eddy was either a, so I think he was a sophomore and it really came down to just one bad call by an official. When Zach Eddy reached out over the baseline or over the side of the court to save a ball from going out of bounds. The game went into overtime. And let's see here, I'm trying 2020. We won 2020. There's some NC State fan watching this right now going, how can you not remember? Well, there's, there's the COVID year, I don't believe they played in the COVID year. So it may have been even further back. Uh, either way, either way they, here it is 82 to 72 loss to Purdue who was ranked number one in the country at the time of the basketball Hall of Fame. P Perdue has been number one in the country. It feels like for three years they just have no trophies to show for it. Big 10 trophies maybe. Uh, the other thing, uh, I wanna talk about is it does feel like 83 and, and I'm gonna explain what that mean coming up next right here on the Pack Therapy Podcast. After these words from our sponsors, it feels like 1983 in here. Do you know what we should have done? We should, we should have, uh, dress that we should have done the second half dressed in like all eighties gear should. So we came back would have been like a retro, I do have the retro logo on my shirt. Uh It's, it's the old school that's vintage stuff. Here's the deal I did not think. And I, and I said this on uh WRL news this morning, Friday morning. Uh I said this on the drive with, with, with Tim Donnelly 99 9 the fan this in afternoons on, on the fan. Um I was very against all of the comparisons to 1983 because it didn't feel fair to me. I've said this on this podcast. Uh I it's, you know, you wrote one good lyric, right? Because it was like starting with the Duke win, really the Duke win the first one in the AC C tournament. People started saying it's starting to feel like 1983 in here and, and why not us and all these things and survive and advance and, and I was going, you know, 1983 in a lot of, in a lot of ways happens, not just like once in a generation, not just once ever, right? That that is such a special run and, and Jimmy V like if anyone else was in that seat, it wouldn't have worked. And if I'm all the way down to the game winner, like if Lorenzo Charles isn't just standing there uh in the wherewithal to catch that pass from Wittenberg. Uh It it's like so many little things had to go. Right. And it didn't feel fair to me to put that on a team who, you know, could do something like they've done and they're still two games away from matching 1983. Uh, that, like, this has been so fun. We've all really enjoyed it. The Bell Tower, there's still two games away from matching 1983 because you have to win the national championship. But there was a point earlier this week where I said, all right, we gotta stop fighting it. We, we, we have to stop fighting it. Uh There's too many similarities. The teams have talked 1983 the surviving members and, and uh and this year's team got together on the phone and were able to go back and forth about an experience that literally no one else on the planet aside from those two groups, kind of can, can understand and, and I think it's now time to embrace it, right? Like what I was talking about, we should have come out in, in 1983. Garb how baller would it be if, if they come out for warm ups in the 1983 warmups, like, like lean into it, right? It's, it's, and you can't run from NC State's history. You can't run from, from the school you chose. Uh I guarantee when you were being recruited out of the portal or, or out of high school, uh to NC State. They, they brought up national champions and, and they showed the trophies and they had the video of Valvano running around looking for someone to hug. Don't run from it. Now, as much as I thought it was unfair to put it on you. I don't think there's any way you can get away from it. You take a walk through the new museum at Rs Coliseum and Michael o'connor. Remember we talked about this in a previous episode. He said, one of the big selling points that brought him to NC State when he transferred from Sanford was Kevin Keats saying you can help us win a national championship next year. And we all say, oh, that's just coach's dog. You know, that's what every coach is telling con was saying. It was coaches talk about halfway through February and then he hits the three point shot against Virginia, which by the way, as you mentioned, NC State would not be in this position if it had not been for that shot. He's thinking, oh, man, I might be helping this team win a national championship, Michael o'connell too. And Kevin Keats talked about this in his media availability yesterday. I think it's really found his voice during this NCAA tournament. Keats said that he's in the huddle coaching players. He's getting up and talking to the team in the locker room, he's going out and making special plays, the three point shot against Virginia. Michael o'connell is a big centerpiece of this, of this team. Obviously, you have DJ Horn DJ, Burn, DJ Burns, but it's been really cool to see him develop and find his, his voice. As Keats mentioned throughout this tournament run, they're gonna need everybody and, and I've, I've waxed poetic about Casey MC. I'm a big fan. Uh Jaden Taylor knocked in the, the, the kind of made it obvious three in the, the overtime game against Oakland, the DJ S. But let's quickly talk about the third DJ. Uh, as I call him, Dennis Parker Junior, Dennis Junior DJ, I call him the third DJ. He's cleared, they might need him. Right. We talked about how Perdue draws fouls. Dennis Parker Junior hasn't played in 10 games. He's been out with a, I believe, an illness. Um, which, which is a strange situation but heck, you know, everything that's gone on with NC State the last however long has been a strange, yeah, exactly. It's all different. And, and what Dennis Parker Junior gives you is somebody that's played a role in, in games this year. He has a lot of experience and he has length. Um, if it comes down to it because you look at DJ Horn, love DJ Horn. Big, big fan. I think what he's done for this community as someone from this community is, he's really the only guy from the triangle that's in the rotation. They have six guys on the roster from North Carolina. He's the one that plays. Um, he's an undersized guy. Jaden Taylor can be an undersized guy, Michael o'connell can be, they, they just don't have, you know, elite length on the perimeter. Dennis Parker Junior does, if it comes down to, you know, the rotations need to be a half second, more extended on defense, maybe he gets in the game, if there's foul trouble, maybe he gets in the game and, and, you know, it's better to have all of your options available than to not. I think that's fair. And, uh, and he's back and cleared, ready to play in the final four. Brian pass has even got some minutes during the NCAA tournament when, uh, when it was Middlebrooks and Burns that fouled out in the overtime game against Oakland, you're kind of going. Oh, no, this is where it starts. Brion pass came in and I can't remember if you can. It was, uh, Middlebrooks and Darra Di Burns was out there like, all right, I got burns was like, all right. I played 42 minutes. I'll do it myself. Brion pass got in there and he made some hustle plays. I can't remember he scored or not, but he was definitely, you know, given all he got, given it all he had on defense and then Ernest Ross again hasn't played much, but he's still a pretty tall guy. I mean, yeah, good vibes. You just, you want to have a good arsenal to just go to. And if you're sitting there on the bench just kind of getting lost in the spotlight. All of a sudden, Ernest go, go to the table. You gotta be like, all right, coach take off the, take off the warm up clothes and be ready to go. Th th this will be my last big point and then, then I'll, I'll let Graham bring whatever point he wants to bring to the table. Um The hardest part I think for NC state in addition, like there is the tangible heart, the tangible difficult. And what I mean by that is like stopping Zach eating or uh guarding the perimeter three against, against Purdue. Um I think the hardest part for them is as people is to bring the same energy right? There's, there's kind of two ways to handle the uh this run. One of them is right. You, you lock the door to the bandwagon. No, if you weren't with us in, in, in mid January, you're not with us now, us against the world only. Do you get like angry and you, you channel that into, into wins. The other way is, do we need, do we need to get another trailer? Do we need to get another bus? Do we need to get another caboose throw on the back of our bandwagon? Wh who's coming? We who's on you? Bring your friend everybody get on like there's bandwagons for everybody. We're throwing a party that's been state's way to go about it. Right. They, they've been having fun. They've been understanding that they're underdogs but also kind of playing like the, you know, how cool would it be? Right. How, how fun would it be? Uh, I think it's, it's part of the charm of both the AC C and NCAA tournament is, they play multiple games with multiple teams in the same arenas. So you kind of do get crowd favorites and State has been that if, uh you know, Boston College is playing later that night in the AC C tournament. So their fans are filing in at halftime of the previous game and NC State is playing, they were cheering for NC State. Uh Pittsburgh, like as long as you weren't a fan of whoever state was playing against, like if you weren't a fan of, of uh Oakland or Texas Tech, you were rooting for NC State and they were very much like everyone on the bandwagon. Let's roll. Now you get to the final four. Can you keep up that same fun? You bring up Ernest Ross, uh uh Dennis Cox, who's, who's uh part of 99 9, the fan is out there in Phoenix covering the final four for us and he filmed it, it was Ernest Ross. It was um was it, uh Snell, there may have been a nunneley sighting in there. Uh They, they were doing a tiktok dance in the locker room during media availability. Now, I feel 1000 years old just saying the words tiktok dance. But like if that's who you are, that's who you are right. If you're having fun and, and you're enjoying the ride, that's who you are. Um, and, and at the AC C tournament, I was in the, one of the locker rooms, postgame get, getting, uh, some interviews and Snell walked by and kind of cracked a little joke and, and it's like if that's who they are, that's who they are. It can't change now that you're gonna have 20 million people watching you versus 10 million last week and five the week before. Like you have to be you, which is not easy to do when everybody is telling you like, this is the biggest game of your life. This is the big, it's like, ah, and then you got to run out there and it's like, no, it's just basketball. It's just us. I'm here with my best friends. I'm here with these guys that, that we've done something special with. That's to me the biggest challenge for them. It all started with the three point goggles when they were trolling Jim Boeheim. And then the boom box, you want to hear my j my Jim Boeheim impression. I'm the oldest man alive. There's, there's my, my Jim Boeheim impression. I feel 1000. He is 1000. It started with the three point goggles, the boom box DJ burns walkout entrance. You want to be a boss, you gotta pay the price. And one reason why I feel like a lot of this has come together and Tim is someone who played a, a team sport and got to the championship game at the F CS. So the, the, the one AA national championship we made it, we got to agree. Camaraderie is a big part of this and Kevin Keats, you'll be proud of me, Tim. I, I'm about to blow you away. I want to use an analogy for you. Kevin Keats said yesterday, there used to be an old or back in the day and they may still do it. Hotels would ask when you checked in. Are you here for business or are you here for pleasure? And Kevin Keats said he wanted to tell his team that if anybody asked him that to say both yesterday during their first practice, 50 50 50 of the business when they're on the court, 50 of that f 50% fun. He said it was the first practice that he ever allowed his players to bring their cell phones out onto the floor so that they could take pictures, call family members and just embrace it for a little bit. Then he said today, 75% business, 25% fun. And then by tomorrow, 100% shades on black leather jackets as they're walking into the arena that they've been doing it all business standing on business as DJ Burns would say, III, I love that from, from coach, recognizing that it is different, but also trying to make sure his teams are locked in. It's exactly what you're looking for and, and, and, you know, you bring up camaraderie, it's, you can't teach it right. You know, you brought up that, that I was on a team that made it to the F CS national championship. One of the more frustrating things in my football career is being the next year, we did not have a good season. Uh I it was early two years later, we didn't have a good season and, and you're standing like week five and you, you know what it feels like to be in one of those locker rooms where like, you're one of the best teams in the country. You know what it feels like to have that mix of, uh, business and pleasure where it's like we're having fun, but also when we need to lock in, we lock in and, and if you, if you aren't locked in and you need to be one of your best friends will smack you on the side of the head and say like, hey, like, let's get with it. Like, you know what that feels like and then to be in a situation where you don't have it and you're trying to like, force it, it's so frustrating. Uh Right, when, when, you know, during the year we made it to the national championship. I could smack my best friend on the head and be like, hey, lock in and he's like, you're right. And, and we get to work. Two years later, I smack my best friend on the, the side of the head. I go, hey, lock in, he's like, what the heck was that? And I'm like, oh, no, what, where did it go? How did we lose it? Like right now state is so in the pocket they're so into the coach can say, yeah, bring your cell phones, but for the 50% of practice, put it on silent and nobody is sitting there hearing their phone vibrate going. Like, I wonder if, I wonder if that's AD M from, uh, from Drake. I wonder if, I wonder if that's AD M from, from, you know, some, some famous person like they're not doing that, they genuinely are locked in. So I, I keeping that I think is, is, you know, aside from the schematics of how you plan on getting DJ Horn open when they play a certain defense, I think that's probably the, the toughest challenge for them. I mean, and it's what's also impressive about all that. The camaraderie that they do have as Gary Hunt said, it's clear that this team loves each other. They care about each other. It's the closest they've ever been, obviously being to a final four. You gotta be pretty close but that all happened because there were seven new guys that got bought into this program. And I think you got to give a lot of credit and tip your hat off to Kevin Keats and a guy like Case Marau, that's been one of the big things that I think we can always go back to is your conversation that you had with him at AC C tip off where he said he took the role of welcoming the new guys and making them feel comfortable. It's gone a long way, hosting, get together and hey, everybody come over to my house or everybody let's meet at this restaurant game. Th those things, they, they're more important than you think. Um And it showed like they, they are legitimately a very tight knit group and also credit to the new guys, right? Credit to Michael o'connell, credit to uh these guys that came in this year DJ Horn. And aren't saying like this is how we did it at Stanford or I averaged 12.5 points at Arizona State. Here's what you need to listen to. They came in and, and integrated and assimilated and, and everybody became this and it took them till the last possible second if they would have gelled one second later than they did. Uh None of this happens but, but it, it, you know, they got it done under the wire and that's all that matters and they keep going back and crediting Kevin Keys. They said, Kevin Keys is the one centerpiece that kept this team together when he's being compensated for it with all these contractual uh incentives that he's reaching and I don't have his contract in front of me, but I'm sure one more win would be quite lucrative for, for coach Keats at the end of the day. If you didn't think it before or you've just been saying it so much that finally came into fruition. Kevin Keats is a winner. This team is a win, is, this team is not of winners, no matter what happens tomorrow. It's been a lot of fun and it's just tim, it's crazy to think that when I got asked to step in to do the basketball edition of Pet Therapy. Yeah, actually, you know, we're, we're pretty much out of time here, but I do want, we, you know, as somebody who's been in the business for a little over a decade now, uh, you are a younger person than I am, right? Let's just call that what it is. Uh, they aren't all like this but you don't, you don't host a podcast and then they immediately go to the final four. I've hosted a lot of, I live a dumb life. I've hosted a lot of podcasts for some bad teams. Um, and, and it's, it's, or shows where you're covering a bad team. Uh, this, this one is, uh, it's a special run. So uh, if you're an NC State fan out there, I don't have to remind you. Right. 41 years. They do not come along often. So enjoy it when it's here and, and, you know, if it's business and pleasure, enjoy the, for fans, it's, it's all pleasure. Right. That's a weird way to put. It's all, it's all enjoyment and entertainment. So, enjoy it. Uh, we'll have more podcasts coming hopefully after wins. Right. And, and hopefully, you know, there's two more. That's all you can do. There's two more. Uh, so we'll be, uh, we'll be paying attention for everybody out there. Like, subscribe, pass this along to your friends. Uh, and we'll see you later and enjoy. Mhm.